For discussion, news, comments, questions and information about Crete & Greece.
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Re: Virus

Postby evansmr1 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:52 pm

Stop this panicking a daft hygiene instructions. Look whats happened to the panic buying in the UK and else where. Not here please.
The UK papers are bad enough at causing panic, please not this forum, is there not better things to discuss?.I am certain that ALL readers of this forum are aware of how to wash their hands and be self protecting. No need to ram it down our throats.

So far only a small proportion of the population on Earth has been confirmed of having the virus, only a very small portion of that number have died.

More people catch flu and die from it. More people die from a Heart attack etc, etc.

Finally, do not post suspect cases on Crete, this just starts a panic, wait for the confirmation. To date 2 suspect cases, both proved not to have the virus.

Our thoughts should go out to the many Greeks and Businesses who rely on Holiday Visitors for their income. A panic will bankrupt many of them.
Sic parvis magnaike

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Re: Virus

Postby Kilkis » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:03 pm

Who is panicking? I have not done anything different from what I have been doing for the last 74 years. What "daft" hygiene instructions. All I can see is repetition of the official guidelines. What is daft about that? OK, so suggesting using Raki is a bit off the wall but very Cretan, since it is supposed to cure everything. Whimsy surely rather than panic? Why is discussing potential cases causing panic. I heard about the suspected cases in Chania last Friday. All last week I still went out, e.g. to tavernas and cafés, exactly as I had planned to do. My philosophy is very simple:

    Why Worry?
    In life there are always two possibilities.
    For example, today, you might catch COVID-19 or you might not.
    If you don't catch it, why worry?
    If you do catch it there are two possibilities.
    You might recover or you might die.
    If you recover, why worry?
    If you die there are two possibilities.
    You might go to heaven or you might go to hell.
    If you go to heaven, why worry?
    If you go to hell you'll be so busy catching up with all your old friends you won't have time to worry.

I would hold off doing comparisons with seasonal flue or any other diseases for about three to four months and we will have a better picture. I would imagine that the black death, which is believed to have originated in east Asia and migrated west along the silk road, didn't kill that many people in the first couple of months of appearing but eventually it killed between 30% and 60% of Europe's population. I am not suggesting that COVID-19 will do this but we have no idea at the moment if it will be worse than seasonal flue or not. Time will tell.


PS Holiday makers are already cancelling bookings or not booking. Nothing anybody on here writes will alter that. I haven't cancelled my bookings and have no intention of doing so whatever happens.

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Re: Virus

Postby Carolina » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:17 pm

There have definitely been many more than two suspect cases on Crete - I have been following the local Greek (Crete) news and read of at least 5 suspect cases (where people had returned from Italy & presented with symptoms) and the papers reported that many more had been to hospitals for testing.

However the local press have now agreed, according to an article dated 4th March, to stop reporting all 'most suspect' cases as there are many and it doesn't help by causing false alarm.

There have been no recorded cases so far - all those tested in Chania, Rethymnon & Heraklion hospitals so far have proved negative.

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Re: Virus

Postby ros21m » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:44 am

Yes, so far, NO positive tests, here on Crete. However, I know so many people in the UK, who are not booking ANY holidays, ANYWHERE, at the moment. Originally, it was to do with Brexit, visas needed or not etc! Now, it's to do with Corona virus. 1 UK airline, Flybe has already gone bankrupt, rumour has it, many more airlines, worldwide, are going to go the same way. Already, Greece has banned any schooltrips outside of Greece. There's already a ban, interanaly on travel to 3 Prefectures of Greece.

So, we ALL, sit back & wait to see what evolves.

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Re: Virus

Postby mouche » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:34 am

Is it safer to just stay where you are, happen to be, than to travel to another place where a lot of people are staying as they are afraid to travel to where you come from due "high" risk of being infected?

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Re: Virus

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:12 am

Nicely put, Mouche.

Personally, if infections become more widespread and I did decide to limit my travel, it would be on the basis that, at the best of times, planes are plague ships rather than on the basis of the number of cases at my destination. I rarely catch infectious diseases but every time I have, over the last 20 years, it has been almost exclusively through flying. Planes, doctors surgeries and hospitals are highly dangerous places.


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Re: Virus

Postby Maud » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:19 am

This is a sensible article in today’s Guardian on line. ... SApp_Other

Re panic buying, a friend who lives in the SE of England told me yesterday that it is impossible to buy any sort of wipe......alcohol or water her local supermarkets or chemists. I read earlier that two women in Sydney got in to a fight in a supermarket over toilet rolls! - What is society coming to?

I think the Guardian article is quite reassuring if people can be bothered to read it, rather than rushing out to buy toilet rolls etc!

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Re: Virus

Postby Kamisiana » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:08 pm

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Re: Virus

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:50 pm

It's a good example of a self fulfilling prophesy. A media outlet perhaps comments in a quite measured way on the possibility of some disruption to supply chains due to COVID-19 which might lead to shortages in some goods. A relatively small group of people read that and immediately decide to stock up on larger than normal quantities of anything they can think of. That inevitably leads to gaps on shelves, not due to any shortage of supply, but because the supermarket just isn't restocking the shelves fast enough. The gaps then provoke other people, who had previously never thought of bulk buying, to grab larger quantities of certain good creating yet bigger gaps. The cycle is self perpetuating until it does create a real shortage that is absolutely nothing to do with disruption in the supply chain or COVID-19. Reporting of the shortages in the media or social media then accelerates the process.

Idiot human behaviour creating the very thing they were afraid of.


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Re: Virus

Postby BST » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:24 pm

I was impressed with this article
From an infectious disease specialist:

Abdu Sharkawy

"I''m a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it."

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

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Re: Virus

Postby Keltz » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:04 pm

Well said that man. A bit of perspective and reality of the situation from someone who knows what he is talking about.

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Re: Virus

Postby Kilkis » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:45 pm

I'm quite shocked that the current government hasn't taken a more pro-active and holistic response to COVID-19. According to the OBR there are 12.7 million recipients of UK State Pension paid an average of £7,610 each. UK State Pension is a huge drain on the economy since it is unfunded and relies on today's workers paying the pensions of today's retirees. Many of those pensioners will also be receiving occupational pensions from schemes that are seriously underfunded since the financial crisis. They are also all living in houses when there is a severe housing crisis.

If the government were to copy the tactics of 18th century colonists of the Americas and issue blankets infected with COVID-19 to all UK State Pensioners and also tell them to stay at home, keep warm, drink lots of fluids, take paracetamol and self isolate it would be reasonable to assume that over 1 million would die, based on current death rates for older people. That would save the government getting on for £8 billion per year, which could be used to provide £150 million per week to the NHS. It would free up between 500,000 and 1 million houses for other people to occupy, i.e. between 2 and 4 times the amount provided by new builds. It would reduce the costs to all occupational pension schemes possibly bringing them into balance. There might also be a bonus in inheritance tax.

I can't see what the downside is? Come on Johnson, step up to the plate. You know it makes sense.


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Re: Virus

Postby Jeffstclair » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:25 am

..... A Modest Proposal ....

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Re: Virus

Postby Maud » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:39 am

He and the girlfriend were at Twickenham yesterday watching the rugby. He can’t do two things at once Warwick, his brain doesn’t function that way. I am sure once he has read your post on here it will form the basis for his agenda today.

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Re: Virus

Postby bobscott » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:25 am

Kilkis wrote:
I can't see what the downside is? Come on Johnson, step up to the plate. You know it makes sense.


I do so love a bit of good old British irony; my only fear is that silly b***er in No. 10 and his prit-stick companion at PMQ's last week will take heed and think it is A Good Thing!

Yesterday today was tomorrow. Don't dilly dally!

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